Curse

awesome sauce · Jan 24, 2006, 08:11 PM // 20:11

CA monks are fun. All i do is use channeling, stay in one place and feed energy off the stupid wars and trappers who come after me. Then I usually have enough energy to heal myself and anyone else whos being hit.

Akathrielah · Jan 24, 2006, 08:18 PM // 20:18

As others have suggested before, take a well thought out build (Boon prot works well in arenas), and just keep on practicing, good monking (along with many other skills in this game) comes with good practice.

Also don't be too hard on yourself, keep in mind that many times, your "teamates" in random arenas are often doing their best to find interesting and idiotic ways of killing themselves while be as ineffective as possible.

toastgodsupreme · Jan 24, 2006, 09:00 PM // 21:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akathrielah

As others have suggested before, take a well thought out build (Boon prot works well in arenas), and just keep on practicing, good monking (along with many other skills in this game) comes with good practice.

Also don't be too hard on yourself, keep in mind that many times, your "teamates" in random arenas are often doing their best to find interesting and idiotic ways of killing themselves while be as ineffective as possible.

Reminds me of a warrior I played against last night named "Omg A Runner".

Brought sprint and charge and didn't help his team at all. Just waited till they were all dead and laughed as he ran around the map. Sigh.

To the point of the thread, I'm seeing a lot more mesmers and eles comming in as stealth monks. Additionally last night I saw my first prot warrior who bonded two people on her team and then went to work fighting. I was shocked. It was a clever idea though since warriors are usually targeted last unless someone on your team is running a specific warrior-takedown build.

LouAl · Jan 24, 2006, 09:11 PM // 21:11

@Cologne

I play a mesmer in CA/TA and I actaully think that it is rather close which prof gets spiked first, but I think Monks win...or is it lose...whatever, monks usually get spiked first.

I really wanted to say that as a mesmer in CA/TA I am ALWAYS very, very happy when there is a monk on my team, regardless of their skill level. I find that if the monk takes the first spike that leaves me free to put some real pain on whoever is hurting my monk, and if I get the firts spike that leaves my monk free of any hurt and able to, usually, heal me while the rest of our team kills the highest priority target.

Also I sometimes bring inspired hex for those occasions whe the monk needs help keeping people alive and I need some extra energy.

Point of the Post:

Cheers for Monks in CA/TA!

Age · Jan 24, 2006, 09:36 PM // 21:36

I would do what the rest are saying but just use RoF and POS to help protect your self as well if you are suffering from any conditions from a Warrior Victory is Mine works well.

xcutioner · Jan 24, 2006, 10:13 PM // 22:13

A few ideas to consider:
1. kite constantly
2. try reversal of fortune and divine boon(with high divine favor)
3. dont overheal
4. avoid lengthy casting/cooldown skills

Make this the basis of you're build and identify the key areas that you have problems and then use you're remaining skill slots to help solidfy the build.

Things to help the build:
healing boosters
dmg avoidance/conversion
energy management
condition removal
hex removal

Just remember no build is perfect. You have to rely on your teammates to some degree, so try builds out for a period of time to get a feel for their effectiveness. A heavy damage team can make any monk build look good and vice versa.

Zeru · Jan 24, 2006, 10:27 PM // 22:27

A good monk will make more of an impact to your success in winning CA/TA than any other class by a very large margin.

It's not difficult for a skilled monk to handle no-monk teams in CA for quite awhile since people in arenas are so bad. Add in the fact that most people in CA have self healing and you can keep your team alive for quite a long time.

It sounds like you don't know how to play monk very well. I suggest watching monks in top teams (not just high ranked teams, but actually good teams) and learn how they do it.

JR · Jan 24, 2006, 11:00 PM // 23:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeru

It sounds like you don't know how to play monk very well. I suggest watching monks in top teams (not just high ranked teams, but actually good teams) and learn how they do it.

Agreed, but also remember that monks are far more of a taget in arena than they are in GvG. The lack of positioning, and people aware of the importance of it in Arena means that you will probably be taking hits all of the time. As such building more durability into an Arena monk is fairly usefull.

Zeldawind · Jan 24, 2006, 11:31 PM // 23:31

What i always find very important for monking is knowing the maps and how to hide for certain characters. But this is a quote i like to say about CA: "A good monk who knows how to keep himself and his teammates alive in CA is impossible to defeat" If you look at it like this if you can keep yourselve alive whit any type of enemy against you and keep your mates alive aswell your a good monk who knows how to handle the situations and the maps.

But my point is know how the other characters do dmg and learn how to counter it as a monk. BTW the nrg management as a Boon Prot comes whit experience. If your unfamiliar whit this build you tend to burn your energy to fast. And some other saying: "Don't be afraid to let someone die if you cant save him but try to it will be a waste of your nrg for healing the others while the other is damned to the ground"

Samueldg · Jan 25, 2006, 12:12 AM // 00:12

I play a smite heal build in ca a lot..

sheild of judgement
sym of wrath
cop
healing touch
smite
holy viel
boonheal
rez sig /restore life

keep soj up and the wars get tired of KD.. Ill put boon on after soj when first coming out and stick veil up if I see a hexer...

keeps it simple where im spammin only a little bit of spells and standing my ground with the smites going.

Illusion · Jan 25, 2006, 12:18 AM // 00:18

i suggest makin a self-build like a perm +6 health regen and then focus on allies *note its only a quick build*
Mo/R
max healing
max divine
dont care wut else you put your 6 or what every point in

Watchful spirit (on you)
mending (on you)
healing breeze
orison of healing
dodge
lightning reflexes
res (doesnt matter which ur a monk)
blessed signet

simple lookin isnt it? and if your on the fire arena type jus run into the lava not many are brave enough or stupid enough to follow you while thay have -7 degen u have only -1 which can be quickly recovered *note* try and keep allies near you on outside of lava pit =) this is my build and it works quite nicely if done right

JR · Jan 25, 2006, 01:08 AM // 01:08

As mentioned in my previous post, a Boon Prot build is probably the best build to run in arena. I thought I may aswell post the build up, if anything just to give you an alternative to some of the 'not so great' builds posted in this thread.

First up, the Mantra of Recall boon prot. This build is very very durable. Weaknesses in it are basicly lack of hex removal for allies, and not ideal energy management. The OoB vs MoR argument is one that has been going for a long time, but the basic conclusion that most people draw is that MoR is superior in Arena due to how well it works with Contemplation of Purity. You could drop something for Inspired Hex if you really wanted a hex removal (and more energy), but that really degrades the build. It is important to have a number of enchantments on your bar to make the most of CoP.

MoR Boon Prot

Monk/Mesmer
Level: 20

Divine Favor: 15 (11+4)
Protection Prayers: 11 (10+1)
Inspiration Magic: 9
Illusion Magic: 4

- Distortion (Illusion Magic)
- Reversal of Fortune (Protection Prayers)
- Shielding Hands (Protection Prayers)
- Guardian (Protection Prayers)
- Mend Condition (Protection Prayers)
- Contemplation of Purity (Divine Favor)
- Divine Boon (Divine Favor)
- Mantra of Recall [Elite] (Inspiration Magic)

Next up is the OoB boon prot. Again, a very durable build. Weaknesses include vaunerability to hex stacking, which can't be handled as well as with MoR+CoP. It is however far more pro-active with your team, you have more space on your skillbar for skills that assist everyone. This is why it is far more usefull in GvG, where you wont be the first target every time.

OoB Boon Prot

Monk/Necromancer
Level: 20

Divine Favor: 14 (12+2)
Protection Prayers: 9 (8+1)
Blood Magic: 10

- Reversal of Fortune (Protection Prayers)
- Protective Spirit (Protection Prayers)
- Guardian (Protection Prayers)
- Mend Ailment (Protection Prayers)
- Smite Hex (Smiting Prayers)
- Holy Veil (Monk other)
- Divine Boon (Divine Favor)
- Offering of Blood [Elite] (Blood Magic)

Personally I prefer the OoB boon prot. With effective precasting of Holy Veil, and the fact you have two hex removals, you can deal with a lot of hex type hate quickly on yourself and other members of your team. Maybe not quite as efficiently as with the MoR Boon Prot when removing hexes on yourself, but a decent team should be shutting down hexers fast anyway. You also have much more powerfull energy management, that can dig you out of edenial if neccasary. And on top of that, you don't need CoP to make it work. Some people might run CoP anyway, but I don't really think it is neccasary.

In short: For unorganised random arena, MoR+CoP is the better choice. For organised PvP, OoB is. In my opinion.

A lot of it is down to personal preference, and may find yourself modifying these builds if you play them. Enjoy!

carnivore · Jan 25, 2006, 01:27 AM // 01:27

Boon prot all the way, but dont take any of the Mantra of Resolve crap. its just bad compared to OoB.

Mathematically:
[email protected] Blood: 11 net energy every 15.25 seconds. .72 energy per second, a bit more than 2 pips of energy regen.

[email protected] Inspiration: 13 net energy every 21 seconds. .62 energy per second, a bit less than 2 pips of energy regen.

now you could say you can use MoR with CoP but that just nulifies its energy management so i dont suggest it.

For CA monking i go with a build similar to JR-'s

Divine: 11+4
Prot: 10+1
Blood: 10

Guardian
Mend Ailment
RoF
Prot Spirit
Holy Veil
Boon
OoB
<filler> here you can take a rez, or another spell(i take divine intervention)

basic stradegy really, cast Boon and Holy Veil on yourself in the holding area and when time starts run out and look at whats the other team has got. no necros or mesmers means you can go ahead and take off veil. if you see ele's get ready to throw up Prot Spirit(makes lightning surge+orb a joke), and if you see rangers and warriors get gaurdian and mend ailment ready.

reversal for quick heals.

JR · Jan 25, 2006, 01:34 AM // 01:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by carnivore

Boon prot all the way, but dont take any of the Mantra of Resolve crap. its just bad compared to OoB.

Mathematically:
[email protected] Blood: 11 net energy every 15.25 seconds. .72 energy per second, a bit more than 2 pips of energy regen.

[email protected] Inspiration: 13 net energy every 21 seconds. .62 energy per second, a bit less than 2 pips of energy regen.

now you could say you can use MoR with CoP but that just nulifies its energy management so i dont suggest it.

I largely agree with the above, believe me. However MoR and CoP does allow you very fast and efficient hex stack removal, which can be key in arena. The only thing that really shuts my OoB boon prot down is a Mesmer or Necro that really knows what they are doing with hexes. It also gives you other options in the mesmer class, such as distortion and inspired hex. Distortion in particular can be very usefull.

Quote:

Originally Posted by carnivore

For CA monking i go with a build similar to JR-'s

Divine: 11+4
Prot: 10+1
Blood: 10

Guardian
Mend Ailment
RoF
Prot Spirit
Holy Veil
Boon
OoB
<filler> here you can take a rez, or another spell(i take divine intervention)

basic stradegy really, cast Boon and Holy Veil on yourself in the holding area and when time starts run out and look at whats the other team has got. no necros or mesmers means you can go ahead and take off veil. if you see ele's get ready to throw up Prot Spirit(makes lightning surge+orb a joke), and if you see rangers and warriors get gaurdian and mend ailment ready.

reversal for quick heals.

I have been meaning to play around with Divine Intervention for a while... However I am a big fan of two hex removals, it can provide just the counter you need against those few decent shut down hexes in arena. I also only tend to run minors on an OoB boon prot; having 590 health gives you a little room to take some hits.

Oniobn · Jan 25, 2006, 03:25 AM // 03:25

Ive found that Aura of faith is quite effective...

I personally like to bond + balth's spirit... there are enough dumb warriors out there that this will end up getting you a nice amount of energy.

To heal myself, I go with Aura of Faith+RoF+Mend Ailment+Divine Boon.

Major things I have problems with are KD/AS Warriors along with spiking eles in conjunction. Also, Nature's Renewal(Rarely see this) and teams with heavy hexes. Still, I can confidently say that this combo of healing + energy management works!

Neo-LD · Jan 25, 2006, 03:59 AM // 03:59

For all the boon prot discussion, Id just like to point out that 12+4 DF, 8+1 Prot is usually superior to 11+4 DF, 10+1 Prot. The most you will get out of the extra 2 points of prot is 4% more on your guardian and 8 extra hp on mend. Reversal will get stronger but it rarely triggers on an attack that deals enough damage to get the maximum turnaround anyways. If you go with 16 DF, you can have a flat +7 to all heals, 5 extra hp per enchantment per cop, and more 6 hp on devotion signet.

speaking of devotion signet, I think all you guys who discard it are crazy. The amount of free healing Im able to pull of with it per match is really crazy. every match, every time I have extra time where no one needs a heal immedeately, I use it and get a free 106 hp on whoever I need. I once took a measure of exactly how much it helps, and found that I averaged about 6 devo sigs / minute of TA. Thats more than 600 free hp. The only thing that really stops it is interupt, at which point you simply dont use it. Eventually the interupter will get bored of missing your 1/4s casts and move to someone else. Then go back to using it.

And whats the alternative? Divine Intervention is ok, but with boon DI will heal for 100+ on its own, making it farily difficult to set up a situation where DI will safely trigger. Prot Spirit is too expensive and doesnt save enough damage to merit a spot. Smite Hex could be useful, but to be honest I have never, ever been in a situation where veil + cop wasnt enough to deal with hex stacking. Fact is, in 95% of matches I probably wouldnt even use smite hex once.

Keep in mind that while your monk should be the best it can be, its not superman. If you are being hex stacked, say so, deal with as much as you can, and if your team is designed well they can help out by either interupting the hexers or grabbing the leftover hexes off of you.

NatalieD · Jan 25, 2006, 04:31 AM // 04:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo-LD

speaking of devotion signet, I think all you guys who discard it are crazy. The amount of free healing Im able to pull of with it per match is really crazy. every match, every time I have extra time where no one needs a heal immedeately, I use it and get a free 106 hp on whoever I need. I once took a measure of exactly how much it helps, and found that I averaged about 6 devo sigs / minute of TA. Thats more than 600 free hp. The only thing that really stops it is interupt, at which point you simply dont use it. Eventually the interupter will get bored of missing your 1/4s casts and move to someone else. Then go back to using it.

Man, I'd love to take Devotion on my boon prot. But the only thing I could possibly drop to make room is Protective Spirit, and I kind of need that. Elementalists alone can be handled with just Reversal, but when I've also got a warrior or ranger poking at me and "defusing" my Reversals with paltry non-skill hits, Protective Spirit can be the only thing saving my ass. It also comes in handy against hammer warriors. Sure, it's expensive, but over its duration it can prevent a ton of damage and provide great peace of mind.

Sephir Demange · Jan 25, 2006, 05:15 AM // 05:15

Quick piece on monking in CA or TA or pvp in general. I've played alot of monk, boon prot as well, and I must say that the boon prot is the most versatile in CA, though, in my experience, a straight protection monk with restore condition is either really lucky, or really efficient. Kiting is a monks most important resource. Think of it like this, roughly 2-4 people will target you IMMEDIATELY when a match starts, and I'd say that melee damage pretty much swamps CA. So if you got 2 big, dumb warriors lumbering after you while you run around in small circles slowing their damage considerably, even the most hopeless of teams can start to drop other soft targets. Necros and Mesmers are then a big problem to you as you kite, because you will need self healing. The answer to that has already been mentioned: Contemplation of Purity. If you are using Mantra of Recall you get the added bonus of CoP allowing you to even more closely manage your energy, i.e. letting you remove the mantra and immediately gain energy if you are in an emergency situation. Well, thats my opinion on it, please bear in mind that I stopped going in to CA roughly 3 weeks ago, when I saw my very first "faction bot" and refuse to go back until Anet gets a bit more heavy handed with the moronic macro's running rampant in GW. Hope it helps you all. Good luck. ^_^

Racthoh · Jan 25, 2006, 06:41 AM // 06:41

I'm not a big fan of Protective Spirit as I like to stick with the 5 energy spells on my boon prot since I'm already sacrificing a pip of regen and my spells basically cost 7 energy. With the number of attacks that a Guardian can block, it's pretty much the same as that extra damage that the Protective Spirit would've prevented from warriors and rangers. Not to mention kiting is always an effective method to get those warriors stuck on your own allies.

Concerning spells, I find using the terrain to my advantage is always best. Hard hitting spells like Lightning Orb aren't going to much in the hands of an inexperienced ele who tries to cast it through a wall.

Signet of Devotion is a free heal, and it's not like you're going to face many spikes that can drop you while you take the 2 seconds to use it. Not to mention there aren't a whole lot of mesmer interrupts to counter it if you're faced with Migraine and Arcane Conundrum making your other spells begging to be interrupted. Also fun watching a ranger try to interrupt it when you take a step back and the interrupt doesn't work.

Without a doubt, Viel + CoP is a godsend. Nothing quite like seeing hex after hex suck precious seconds from your opponent just to be removed in 1/4 of one.

glountz · Jan 25, 2006, 12:41 PM // 12:41

You're tired of being annoyed all the time as a monk?
Tired to be interrupted, mana drained, hexed, conditonned, thumped by warriors?
Let's play, for fun, an aura bomber.

Here's a build (note: this build simply won't work against a good team, it's mainly to take your revenge on warriors in CA, for TA it's a lot more complicated to build sumthing around that):

1) The Aura Bomber
12+1+3 Smite
12+1 Divine favor
3 Inspiration
Smite Staff(+20% recharge/casting time of smite prayers, of enchanting +20%)
Skills:
Vengeance
Balthazar's aura
Shield of Judgement {E}
Zealot's fire
Smite Hex
Divine Intervention
Devotion Signet
Mantra of Concentration.

Tips:
-Rush into ennemies and use arrow keys to move instead of clicking to avoid far wanding.
-Your main goal is to trigger Zealot's fire as often as you can. Use and abuse of Signet of devotion while your other skills are recharging. At 16 Smite, Smite hex delivers severe pain.
-If you are low on health, cancel DS and launch Divine intervention, then recast Devotion Signet. Canceling devotion signet cost you nothing. Divine intervention is not triggered by degen, only brute damage, so beware when using it. Anyway, you can last really long if Divine intervention is correctly triggered.
-Recast Mantra of concentration each time it is triggered. Survey your status icons for that. If your Devotion signet is diverted, you are near death because all of your other spells have very long recharge time and huge mana cost.
-As soon as opponents will understand the damage you can deal, they will switch targets. In addition, you are very unable to run and chase opponents. But, all of your spells are castable on an ally (and triggers as well Zealot's Fire). Use this to, for example, help your warrior to kill its target. If he has crippling attacks/running skills, casting on him balthazar's aura will severely reduce the life span of its prey.
-Help also your teamates using Devotion signet/Divine intervention on them. You have limited healing, but it is sufficient as it costs you no energy. In addition, any close ennemy will take fire damage from Zealot's fire.

This build is weak against degens-Enchant strippers, strong against brute damage builds (warrior/ranger spike is completely destroyed by this, mainly because of Shield of judgement and divine intervention).